Clean setup for an intermediate gasser?

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

Hey there,

 

I've only ever owned electric foamies in my RC life, but since I joined CAMFC, I've noticed that EVERYONE has gassers. For a while now, I've been thinking about getting one, but there's one big issue; they're dirty! There's always oil and fuel everywhere, and wherever you put the plane, some will drip down. This is bad for me as I live in a carpeted apartment with no garage, and fuel on the carpets is an absolute no-no.

 

What I really need is a clean setup. Something which is very closed up and won't drip everywhere. I don't know if this is determined my the engine type, engine quality, model type, cowling shape etc., but do you have any suggestions as to a good plane/engine combo for this? I'm a beginner- intermediate pilot, and have flown a gas trainer before so I'm not totally new to it, so while I don't want a huge 3D airframe, I also don't want a trainer. The wingspan has to be at least 1000mm, but no more than ≈1800mm (perhaps we could push 2000mm, ONLY if the wings can split into separate sections), and the wings must be removable.

 

Let me know if you've got any ideas. I'd be willing to take any suggestions

 

PS If there's a cub which suits the above requirements, I'd be more than happy to buy it immediately! I've wanted a cub for aaaaages

 

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

OK, forget the clean aspect of it. Someone on RCgroups just suggested a bin bag over the fuse. Can't believe I didn't think of that earlier...

 

But I'd still very much appreciate suggestions for an airframe and engine which would suit my requirements, as well as being a good introduction to fuel models

 

[Martin 0]

 

I keep all of my fuel planes indoors, hanging engine-upwards on the wall, so any fuel/oil residue inside the engine drops to the back of the engine. There was a thread about this on the forum a couple of years ago: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3715&p=21037 - I keep meaning to update this with photos of what I now do (using horizontal storage rails and hooks from B&Q).

 

To avoid getting oil everywhere, I do two things:

 

• Clean the plane off with detergent at the field before putting it back in the car. I personally use "Flash" brand lemon flavour kitchen surface cleaning wipes from supermarket - I find these more effective than supermarket own-brand. Other people seem to use various detergent sprays and paper towels.

• Plug the silencer outlet with a small twist of paper towel or tissue. If you don't do this then you will definitely get drips as oil slowly runs down inside the silencer. Make sure to use a big enough twist that wedges in well to plug the hole, and do check that it's still there before you hang the plane up!

 

 

Some brands of fuel are much cleaner than others - usually the ones with a high synthetic oil content. I use Optipower "Optimix" fuel (18% fully synthetic oil) which I find very clean, even though I tend to run slightly rich for safety. This is slightly out of specification for some engines (I think it's Irvine that specify a minimum of 20% oil and minimum 3% castor), but I've never had a problem.

 

If you sit the plane on its undercarriage on a flat surface, rather than hanging up with prop shaft upwards, then you may get drips from the front bearing. I've never had any such problem since hanging the planes up.

 

Don't rely on things like cowl shape to keep oil in - if anything you're probably better off with a cowl-less aircraft where you can definitely get at the whole engine to clean it off with a detergent wipe!

 

I wouldn't bother keeping the plane in a bin bag - if that's necessary then you're not keeping it clean enough in the first place! If you're really worried then I'd just put something sacrificial like a piece of cardboard under the aircraft. You don't want to leave oil residue on the airframe even if dripping isn't a concern.

 

Another view, of course, is that if you're mostly interested in electric, and you're worried about mess, then why bother with an IC aircraft at all? If electric works for you then it's capable of powering anything designed for IC, not just foamies. The main things that might be an issue are flight time (a bigger battery adds a lot more weight than more fuel) and the cost of multiple batteries per aircraft so you don't have to sit around waiting for them to recharge. Most modern aircraft that support IC are also designed with electric support - the issue tends to come with older designs which you might need to modify to fit a battery hatch to avoid having to dismantle the whole thing to change the battery. Electric doesn't have to mean foamie!

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

Well, If you use a bung for the muffler, and clean the fuz and wing with cleaner at the field, dripping oil is no problem. As a first IC engine, I highly recommend an ASP engine from just engines. Of course, if you wish to buy an expensive engine such as a decent OS, then that's ok as well, indeed I have just taken delivery of a new cougar with an OS 35 and I have noticed the difference.

 

An ASP 46 would go with the wot 4 IC well. As for the cub, I personally would start with a leccy foam one and learn to control turns with rudder and balance with ailerons.

 

TBH there's no need for a bin bag, I manage just fine with cleaner at field, no mess in garage at all.

 

As a first IC plane for you, I would say that a balsa Wot 4 is the way to go. A cougar may also be an alternative, but it is definitely harder to fly, but offers much more.

 

BUT, on a wot 4 or something, the engine is more fiddly to get to, the tank and bits are hidden away so it may be hard for you to set it up and check it. A trainer such as the boomerang is a bit tedious in the air, but has wide access points and a nice open engine and a easy access tank and radio bay.

 

That being said, I managed fine with my first IC plane as a cougar, so you may be ok. I have also recently bought a wot trainer, and with maximum throws it's a blast to fly, and is easy to assemble and maintain, and if I have fun with it, then that says it all

 

Another thing is the starting gear. I spent about £100 on gear, but I also bought a battery powered glow wand and lipo powered starter I made myself.

 

Other than that, an IC plane does take longer to assemble at the field, but offers much more such as flying time.

 

The fuel most of us use is Prosynth 2000 from Weston UK.

 

Just engines is the site I use for most engines and equipment. You will need a flight box, spare glow pugs (OS no. 8 ), a fuel pump, a glow wand and an electric starter. You also need stuff like a rx battery and bigger servos for IC, 9g servos won't cut it

 

As Martin said, there is always the new wot 4 ep, which is an electric powered balsa wot 4. If you don't like the mess, then electric may work for you.

 

The advantage with IC is that once you have the gear, the fuel and gear is universal.

 

In the end it's up to you, and if you look on just engines and see a heap of stuff you don't know anything about, I am happy to post a complete list of the stuff I use with links for you.

 

I think that's it Just post here what you think and if you need help with ANYTHING just post here

 

 

B

 

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

Thank you both for taking the time to answer my question very thoroughly! After some consideration, I've realised that, at least for now, IC seems like a lot of hassle, and while it can be just as clean as electric, I think that it would be good sticking with electric for a while. I'll definitely have a browse on just engines, and see what sort of price range there is. A Wot 4 would certainly be a good introduction to IC for me, if I don't get either the foam-e or the electric balsa one in the meantime . Then again, the cougar looks tempting...

 

If I decide to start moving into IC, whether it be in a few months or a year or two, it would be absolutely brilliant if I could ask you, Ben, for a little bit of advice. There seems like so many variables and options; it's all a bit daunting for a little electric foamie pilot like me...

 

Electric balsa had definitely been in the back of my mind for a while; thanks very much for bringing it to my attention again, Martin. I assume that it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to remove the electric gear and add an IC system, and since I may well get some IC stuff soon, a balsa model would be a great platform on which to fly both electric and later IC. Maybe later I could invest in the Hangar9 Piper Cub, and choose between electric and IC depending on whether or not I've made the electric-to-IC transition by the time I'm good enough for a cub.

 

Again, thanks ever so much for your help!

 

Sevan.

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

Personally, if I were looking for an electric plane with tons of capability, I'd honestly go for the Wot 4 Foam-e every time. It teaches you a lot of skills whilst spare parts are cheap and repairing is easy. It can be used in the funfly, like I use mine. I believe it is around £120/£140 and it uses 3s 2200mah lipos. I run mine on cheap hobbyking ones and it works a treat. The new Wot 4 EP is an 80% size version of the original IC wot 4, but is wot 4 foam-e size and is meant only for electric. The cougar honestly is a great plane, but as I proved last year, it's not a plane for beginners

 

B

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

Its also no fun starting out in winter, like I did, as the whole experience is ruined by the engine not starting, and then the plug burns out

 

There are a few planes on the market, the cougar being one of them, that can be IC or electric. With the cougar as an example, when you are doing leccy you have to cut out 4 holes in firewall for the leccy motor mount and the lipo goes in the supplied tray. You then glue a bit of ply for the esc to sit on. When you go to IC, these holes should really be filled up, the esc tray must be removed, the lipo tray must be modified and a throttle servo must be attached. Then the plane needs re balancing and setting up. However, Emay has put his old cougar back anf forth from electric to IC some time now, and it is fine, but really the cougar is happier IC.

 

However, having a cougar means that there are plenty people in the club (Me, Emay, Gerard, Dave) that have one, indeed I have just maidened by cougar a few weeks ago. A hangar 9 cub would just about be ok for you, but as with me, there would need to be a lot of sim time, or in my case wot 4 foam-e time, to build up reaction and natural response in order to be ready for the cub.

 

If you really want a cub, you could get a little foamie one, like ET's, which would satisfy you, but isn't really the same at all to the hangar 9 bird, especially with the whole rudder/aileron turning thing.

 

Personally as I previously said, your best bet would be a wot 4 foam-e, as its cheap and a very good little plane.

 

In the end, its up to you, and maybe its worth coming up to the field on Sunday 1st of Jan to have a chat with some of us about IC and plane options, although some of us may not be there as the night before is new years eve

 

B

 

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

The Wot 4 foam-e definitely seems very tempting, though it will have to wait until my birthday in April. Emay has very kindly offered to sell me his old, currently IC, cougar, since he is in the process of thinning out his fleet. It is certainly something I'll consider, but again that may have to wait until my birthday. I'll try talking it through with my dad. I'd probably convert it to electric for the time being, and keep the engine (which, as Emay informs me, is an OS engine so bound to be nice quality), either to put onto the cougar later, or put it onto another system.

 

My parents definitely won't let me come to the field on 1st January; it isn't even worth asking them, for fear of being ridiculed!

 

You guys are tooooo helpful! You've given me too many options to choose from! Right now, it's as follows:

 

Wot 4 foam-e

Wot 4 ep, electric

Emay's cougar, converted to electric

Emay's cougar, as an IC (if I manage to persuade my parents)

 

I've ruled out the cub for the time being. I was also in the middle of designing a 1200mm model, but that will have to wait too.

 

But then there's one more issue; I reeeeally want a Taranis for my birthday...

 

Anyway, thanks again for all the useful information!!!

 

Sevan.

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

Glad I could help

 

B

 

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

Quick update; spoke to dad about it, he said no IC for now as it will stink up my room and he is convinced that there will be a mess. Not going to try and persuade him any further...

 

Emay's Cougar, once converted to electric, is fine by my dad. I have yet to discuss it further with both him and Emay. So the options are now:

 

Cougar (electric)

Wot 4 foam-e

Wot 4 EP

 

Will keep you updated.

 

Thanks

 

Sevan.

 

[Martin 0]

 

You've included two electric-only WOT4s on your list of possibles, but you should also know that the "normal" WOT4 ARTF also now has designed-in electric support: http://ripmax.com/Item.aspx?ItemID=A-CF ... ry=010-020

 

Note that the new Chris Foss ARTFs all need an "IC" or "EP" option pack, sold separately. The latest version of the WOT4 ARTF now follows this approach.

 

I think most of the newer Seagull models also support electric as designed. It's pretty common on current ARTFs, though some do it better than others!

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

There's the;

 

Wot 4 foame - electric only

Wot 4 EP - 80% original wot 4 size, electric only

Wot 4 - IC or electric

 

Basically the Wot 4 EP and the original Wot 4 are the same plane, apart from the EP is 80% size.

 

It's sooo confusing

 

[orange_rc_pilot 0]

 

Wot?

 

The ARTF is certainly a good idea. I'll look into all the different options. Not to mention colour schemes, different marks (1, 2, 2+)... so much choice!!!

 

[Pilot Ben 28]

 

 

Colour scheme is your choice, the highest number is best, as its the latest mark